tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4225502016359798858.post4933423897929392923..comments2023-08-29T09:34:48.537-05:00Comments on εἰκών βασιλέως: Two ParablesDavidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08244026688548871531noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4225502016359798858.post-29018773324780648452013-02-27T18:07:33.300-06:002013-02-27T18:07:33.300-06:00I think that Mormonism hasn't take off like Ch...I think that Mormonism hasn't take off like Christianity did, but it's commonly said to be the fastest growing religion in the world, and it seems to me that they've developed a political presence in a much shorter time span than early Christians did, although I might be somewhat mistaken on that. I think of Christianity as not having terribly much political clout until emperor Constantine in the early 300s.<br /><br />As far as reading the Book of Mormon, I've had a very similar response. I've read a little bit of what other groups say though, and I don't know exactly how much weight to give their account, since they weren't exactly unbiased. I was directed, however, to "The Articles of Faith" by James Talmage, which is scanned and reely available on Google books. <br /><br />Now, I don't know the importance of this book relative to other writings in the faith, but according to wikipedia, "The Mathematics and Computer Sciences Building at Brigham Young University is named after Talmage" so I don't think he's been officially declared a heretic or anything. Starting at the end of page 38 on the Google scanned edition, he says <br />"Three personages composing the great presiding council of the universe have revealed themselves to man; (1) God the Eternal Father, (2) His Son, Jesus Christ; and (3) the Holy Ghost. That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is very plainly proved by the accepted records of the divine dealings with man."<br /><br />Which maybe leaves some room for there to still be a trinity, until he says within the next page:<br /><br />"Jesus, while on earth... has repeatedly testified of the unity existing between Himself and the Father, and between them both and the Holy Ghost. By some this has been construed to mean that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one in substance and in person, that the names in reality represent the same individual under different aspects. A single reference to prove the error of this view may suffice: Immediately before his betrayal, Christ prayed for His disciples, the Twelve, and other converts, that they should be preserved in unity, "that they all may be one" as the Father and the Son are one."Somnivorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01701185667906957231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4225502016359798858.post-57536228959743121422013-02-27T15:09:36.125-06:002013-02-27T15:09:36.125-06:00Something I've ironically heard more from athe...Something I've ironically heard more from atheists than Christians is that you shouldn't just believe something because you want to, or because it sounds nice. It's definitely applicable to Christians as well. Last night in my small group, we mentioned the tendency to reinterpret or culturalize only the parts of the Bible that we don't like at face value, which is of course inconsistent.<br /><br />Regarding the second one, I was just going for the name of Jesus in Arabic! Mormonism still hasn't really taken off like Christianity did, especially outside the U.S.--but then, I suppose Christianity was still considered a cult 150 years later. I haven't studied Mormonism enough to have much of an opinion. I got through the first book of the Book of Mormon, but all the "It came to pass that..." wears me down. It claims not to be fundamentally different, but most Christians would disagree.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08244026688548871531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4225502016359798858.post-13811140916727805152013-02-26T18:07:09.069-06:002013-02-26T18:07:09.069-06:00Regarding this parable, I really do like it. My fi...Regarding this parable, I really do like it. My first reaction to the supposedly perfect system of algebra someone on an internet forum had was "well what about Godel's incompleteness theorem!" and I think that sort of jives with the point. Maybe there is no belief system that can both prove everything that is true, and NOT contain any fundamental contradictions.<br /><br />Going further, though, I'm not sure that means we shouldn't try. We could, for example, find out which of Newton's eight laws contradict themselves when we put them in a system together, and choose one of the systems that doesn't contain any contradictions, which I think of being similar to taking the bible as literally AS POSSIBLE.<br /><br />As a practical matter, stepping out of the parable into what I think is related territory, one of the things that has concerned me in the past, is the possibility that when people come to hold new religious beliefs, those beliefs are somehow accepted in order of how easy they are to accept. It seems to me that this could lead to bias in how we interpret the bible. For example, I'd have very few problems hearing "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" and thinking that it's a beautiful statement, and not thinking of it again, except to remind myself how much God loves me. There are other parts of the bible, however, that I'd read and say, "Hey now, this doesn't seem right." and then the interpretation starts. <br /><br />I think there is some fundamental morality in me, whatever its source might be, that leads me to accept some things more readily than others, and I've worried that this fundamental me-ness shaped my religious beliefs more strongly than my religious beliefs shaped my morality.<br /><br />Regarding Imam Isa(whose name is very close, by the way, to that of a real historical figure from the 80s), I think something very similar HAS happened. I'm curious what your thoughts on Mormonism are, if you're very familiar with it. I happen to have a copy of the Book of Mormon that I've been intending to go through and read at some point. From what little I understand, it is as radically different from Christianity as Christianity is from Judaism, but I don't think either of us are likely to consider this as proof for the validity of its claims.Somnivorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01701185667906957231noreply@blogger.com